25 comment(s)

1. Renegade Eye | Jul 16, 2008 | Reply

   The bigger picture has US imperialism and Chinese imperialism, competing for oil in the region. China is not going to let its oil supply be diverted.

   The AU is a bit player again.

2. Xcroc | Jul 16, 2008 | Reply

   It looks like there are resource wars going on at 2 levels in Sudan. On the ground it is about water, in the international community it is about oil. I read today that:

   In its five years of operation the International Criminal Court has opened four investigations and issued twelve arrest warrants. All of those cases were in Africa. Is that by coincidence? Wars of aggression, suppression of opposition and human rights violations also happen on other continents.

   Uganda’s Daily Monitor quotes Professor Mamdami:

   Renown Ugandan professor and African Union advisor on Darfur, Mahmood Mamdani, has said the International Criminal Court’s decision to charge President Bashir will undermine the political process designed to achieve a settlement of the conflict in Darfur.

   “By criminalising the leadership of Sudan, the ICC (International Criminal Court) will prevent it from exploring peaceful alternatives,” he said.

   Speaking on the sidelines of an NGO meeting on Darfur at the Imperial Royale Hotel yesterday Mamdani said he hoped the African continent will unite against the court’s Sudan decision.

   …
   He said ICC Prosecutor Moreno-Ocampo has sacrificed peace and reconciliation in a blind pursuit of criminal justice. “Let us hope that Africa will unite and say that this is not the way forward,” said Prof. Mamdani at the meeting of the International Refugees’ Rights Initiative workshop discussing Darfur.

3. Kaushal | Jul 17, 2008 | Reply

   Excellent article in the Globe and Mail on the challenges faced by the International Criminal Court in Africa

   http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080614.wafrica0614/BNStory/International/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20080614.wafrica0614

4. BRE | Jul 17, 2008 | Reply

   First of all, the fact that the ICC chief prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo had the “canollis” to issue such an indictment is an act of heroism in an age when real heroes of the people are becoming increasingly rare.

   Second, the murder, rape, pillage, massive forced evacuations of 3-4 million survivors of brutal raids by Arab Janjaweed militias and GoS troops has gone on far too long. The international community, most specifically figures such as Kofi Annan and now Ban ki-Moon, a host of special UN Envoys to Sudan, the entire African Union body as well as many government leaders in Africa, the Arab League and so on and so forth have absolutely failed the people of Darfur for more than 5 years. Five long, horrifying, bloody, thirsty, starving, rape-filled years.

   The charges as described in the indictment summary are very serious but not a surprise as we all knew that President al-Bashir and his henchmen in the Khartoum regime was behind these atrocities. Now our suspicions have been verified by a 3-year long criminal investigation by one of the world’s most respected judicial bodies. And some people have the freakin nerve to suggest that the indictment is a Western plot against Africa?!

   Well if it is then I as a black man from “the Old West” support the ICC prosecutor’s move and I support it fully. I have only one regret about this indictment from the ICC.

   If Sudanese President al-Bashir by some miracle is arrested and brought to The Hague to stand trial for the crimes he orchestrated against millions of innocent men, women, and children in Darfur (and let us not forget the decades-long war in south Sudan), his sentence will be merciful in light of the crimes he has committed against humanity.

   Omar al-Bashir by all rights should hang and they should hang him high from the nearest tree along with his Janjaweed militia commanders and their war camels and horses. May the Maggots from Hell feast upon his rotting corpse for days.

5. Oscar H. Blayton | Jul 17, 2008 | Reply

   While the UN, the EU and the AU have all found that there has been no “genocide” amongst the hunan tragedies in Darfur, the ICC prosecutor, Luis Moreno-Ocampo is seeking an indictment for prosecution for crimes of genocide.

   The United States, which is not a party to the ICC accords - fearing that its military and paid mercernaries would face criminal charges for gunning down innocent civilians in Iraq, Afganistan and elsewhere, has lauded this dubious legal move by Moreno-Ocampo and eagerly hpes that this will be justification to bring about regieme change in oil rich Sudan, just as it did in Iraq.

   Dafur is a tragedy of immense proportions, that will only be compounded if we allow an “oil obsessed” U.S. government to dictate responses where it has little or no regard for the well being of the people who are doing the suffering.

   Reasonable solutions can be found to the crisis in Darfur, if only a way could be found to end the harmful meddling by the U.S. and other western powers.

   Finally, I would like to say to those who advocate the current use of the historical practice of “lynching” that was used in the U.S. to subjugate black people; seeking to “hang someone from the nearest tree” would only perpetuate the type of violence that has brought Darfur to its current state of suffering.

6. BRE | Jul 18, 2008 | Reply

   Dear Oscar,

   First of all it’s good to see you involved in this important debate (remembering an earlier introduction on this site re: AFRICOM).

   You state that the UN, the EU, and AU have all found that there is no genocide taking place in Darfur. I can’t remember that the European Commission or the European Union carried out any detailed criminal investigation of the crisis in Darfur. I live and work in the EU and I am relatively confident that I would have heard or read something about that in the press or media.

   Instead, certain European envoys and political figures such as EU Development Commissioner Louis Michelle have expressed their views and frustrations to EU government bodies and to citizens via the media. As far as the UN investigations into the crisis in Darfur the record speaks for itself and is well documented. The many special reports and testimonies re: Darfur submitted to the UN Security Council and to the UN Secretary General make for some sobering reading about what has been going on there and who is suspected to be behind the atrocities.

   As you say, the Government of the U.S.A. is not a party to the ICC accords, as are several other nations including Russia and China and Sudan for example. I am not aware of any press release or statement from the U.S. government that has “lauded” the move made by the office of Luis Moreno-Ocampo or any other meddling or support by the U.S. government in the ICC investigation.

   If I’m not mistaken, it was the UN that submitted a request to the ICC to launch a criminal investigation into the atrocities taking place in Darfur. However you are right in suggesting that it is an interesting and perhaps embarrassing juxtaposition for the U.S. government “gegenüber” from the present position of the ICC prosecutor Moreno-Ocampo. Let’s see how that plays out with the ICC judges and God forbid they toss the hot potatoe back to the UNSC for a decision.

   To suggest that my statement about President Omar Hussein al-Bashir deserving to hang has anything to do with the terrible legacy of lynching parties that plagued our (yours and mine) country for hundreds of years is perplexing, especially for a person of your education and experience. In the case of Omar al-Bashir I would support the death penalty if he were ever tried before a criminal court and found guilty of the crimes he (allegedly) orchestrated against innocent men, women, and children in Darfur and in south Sudan over the past 20 years. I’m sure that I am not alone in my absolute contempt for this man and his murderous Janjaweed militias___ just look into the faces of the survivors of his raids and bombings.

7. BRE | Jul 18, 2008 | Reply

   Corrections to my previous comment above:

   That’s Louis Michel (one l, no e), European Commissioner for Development and Aid. I forgot to mention a very important European envoy who has visited Sudan a number of times in efforts to resolve the crisis in Darfur Javier Solana. Solana is Secretary-General of the Council of the European Union and EU High Commissioner for the Common Foreign and Security Policy. No criminal investigations into the charges of crimes against humanity and genocide being committed in Darfur were initiated by these high-profile EU parliamentarians or anyone else in the Council of Europe.

   Lastly, I did not properly identify Omar the Terrible by his proper and full name. That’s Sudanese President Hassan Ahmad AL BASHIR, soon to be a wanted man for genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes in Darfur. The ICC Prosecutor’s indictment of July 14, 2008 does not use the name ‘Omar’. Maybe that’s the hitch; they’re after the wrong guy!

8. Oscar H. Blayton | Jul 18, 2008 | Reply

   Dear BRE,

   Thank you for your kind welcome.

   With regard to the UN, the EU, and AU I commend various references below:

   U.N.

   http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/africa/01/31/sudan.report/

   “UNITED NATIONS (CNN) — The government of Sudan and militias have acted together in committing widespread atrocities in Darfur that should be prosecuted by an international war crimes tribunal, but the violent acts do not amount to genocide, a U.N. commission has said.”
   ——————————–

   A.U.

   http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/sudan/2005/0210aurole.htm

   “In a communiquÈ issued in July, the AU Peace and Security Council (PSC) stated that even though the crisis in Darfur was grave with unacceptable levels of deaths, human suffering, and destruction of homes and infrastructure, the situation could not be defined as “genocide.” ”
   ———————————–

   E.U.

   http://www.sis.gov.eg/En/EgyptOnline/Politics/000003/0201000000000000002426.htm

   “European Union Foreign Policy Chief Javier Solana’s special envoy to Sudan said on Monday that there is no evidence on alleged genocide committed in the troubled Sudanese region of Darfur.”
   ———————————–

   Regarding U.S. support for the ICC investigation, I can point to – among other things – a recent Washington Post artivlcle:

   “Sudan Leader To Be Charged With Genocide”

   “Peace Efforts in Darfur Could Be Hampered, Some U.N. Officials Fear”

   By Colum Lynch and Nora Boustany
   Washington Post Staff Writers
   Friday, July 11, 2008; A01

   “The Bush administration has long opposed the International Criminal
   Court, fearing it would conduct frivolous investigations of alleged crimes by U.S. service members. But the United States allowed the Security Council to authorize the court to investigate war crimes in Darfur.”

   Regarding lynching – it is difficult for me to imagine that taking someone out and hanging them from “the nearest tree” without reference to any legal proceeding is anything other than a lynching.

   I hope that my responses help you to understand my position.

   Best regards,

   Oscar

9. Renegade Eye | Jul 18, 2008 | Reply

   See this.

10. BRE | Jul 19, 2008 | Reply

    Thank you Oscar,

    I will checkout the information you have referenced in your comment above. As a matter of fact, I have been reading a great deal online about the reaction to the ICC indictment on this rainy Saturday in Germany. This move by the ICC’s Luis Moreno-Ocampo is stirring up quite a bit of emotion and controversy from all corners of the globe. I think that the move is simply brilliant and long overdue. Let’s see what happens and hope for the best; that the indictment and its fallout finally brings some relief to the people trapped in those miserable IDP camps in Darfur and Chad and some serious negotiations to reach a lasting peace deal.

    I probably should back away (apologize) for suggesting that Omar al-Bashir be hanged___ but on second thought I will stand by my position because I am convinced of his guilt as listed in the charges contained in the ICC prosecutor’s indictiment. I do believe that the President of Sudan, Omar Hassan al-Bashir, be tried before a respectable and authoritative court of law outside of Sudan AND I am very intersted in learning if the International Criminal Court in The Hague can withstand what may be the greatest test of its authority in its short 10 year history.

    I’m working on a ‘ICC vs Sudan Roundup’ for my blog so you may want to stop by in a day or two to see what I’ve been reading. In addition, none other than the EU’s Louis Michel spoke out in the strongest of terms on behalf of the EU this week re: the need for President al-Bashir and the GoS to respect the will of the ICC. It would seem that the EU leaders are changing their thinking about the crisis in Darfur while adjusting their earlier (public) positions on whether Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes have been committed there. Here’s the link to the article at DW World (Deutsche Welle):

    European Leaders Urge Sudan to Respect ICC Decision (14 Jul 08)
    http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3484274,00.html

11. kizzie | Jul 19, 2008 | Reply

    This is ridiculous. All of a sudden, the whole world is full of Sudan experts ( they’ve never been to the country , but they know what should be done to “save Sudan”).
    Yes, Bashir should go to the hague and he is guilty to the teeth, but the majority of the Sudanese agree on two things
    1- This is a Sudanese matter. He should be persecuted in Sudan by the Sudanese people.
    2- If he steps down and leaves us the hell alone, then we could start the formation of a transitional government. In this case, he should be exiled. If Bashir agrees to get lost because we have had enough, he should be granted amnesty.
    As much as I would love to see him executed, it’s more like a business deal to him right now.
    This matter is up the us the sudanese right now.

12. BRE | Jul 21, 2008 | Reply

    Oh this is interesting. A high-profile and well-known Sudanese blogger has joined the debate (Kizzie).

    You are correct in your statement that it appears that the whole world has become experts on Sudan and the Darfur crisis, but that could also be said about places like Iraq or Palestine or the U.S.A. You will find no “experts on Darfur” here I guarantee you, but what you will find are people who are concerned about what is happening there and how it can be stopped.

    FYI Oscar Blayton is an attorney (and a combat veteran) so what he has to say about the crisis is not irrevelant. Me, I’m nobody (just an old fool). No need to pay attention to anything that I have to say about such a complicated matter as Sudanese politics and society and the crisis in Darfur.

    Re: your statement that Darfur is a matter for the Sudanese people, perhaps you are correct and it is just that. If that is so, I suggest that the people of Sudan who have any influence whatsoever on political matters including the protection and well-being of the country’s citizens get busy because the hammer has dropped and much is at stake that goes far beyond the issue of Darfur.

    Re: your statement about Omar al-Bashir stepping down and leaving the people of Sudan “the Hell alone” that would be a good start. Such a move may slow the wheels of justice that are coming up to speed in The Hague and elsewhere. After all, this is about “regime change” and placing the governance of your country on stable and sustainable footing.

    This of course will not happen (Bashir stepping down willingly and going into exile) because Nr. 1 if the ICC judges decide that an arrest warrant be issued for the arrest of Omar al-Bashir then exile will be of no use to him (ref: the ongoing trial of former Liberian president Charles Taylor). Nr. 2 is that al-Bashir does not stand alone in orchestrating the violence and atrocities that have taken place in Darfur. What do you do with all of his henchmen and lieutenants, send them into exile (with amnesty) too? What do you do with the “rebels” who have committed equal henious crimes against innocent civilians?

    Re. your statement “as much as I would love to see him executed…” I find that very interesting, a young and well-educated Sudanese woman that supports capital punishment. Was that a mere slip of the tongue or do you truly believe that Omar al-Bashir should be put to death for the crimes he has carried out against his own people and the ruination of your country over the past two decades?

    My greetings to your Nubian colleague (Drima, the Sudanese Thinker) and thank you for sharing your views in this little meaningless debate. I do hope that Drima too stops by and drops a penny or two into the well.

13. CareTaker | Jul 21, 2008 | Reply

    To Kizzie: You would agree that the world has become a global vllage, and there are no longer regional boundaries on issues, particulalary on topics that have assumed international dimensions and catastrophic proportions.

    The Darfur conflict has stopped being a topic for just the Sudanese people and pundits several months before the ICC verdict. As BRE stated, the comments here on AfricanLoft, and most online destinations are driven by the genuine concerns of individuals, who - though “not expert” - are have with the milk of human kindness.

    Of course, the Sudanese people have to carry the burden of conflicts in Sudan, and the sooner they started the better. But let me emphasis that there are others carrying the burden as well - the tax payers of concerned nations and international agencies funding peacekeeping and relief efforts in Sudan.

    How many of those people have been killed “in the line of duty”? How many children, wives, mothers and fathers are been permanently “touched” by the Darfurian conflict?

    As a blogger you should have a sense of “how the many”, but I will encourage you to do a quick research, then maybe you would appreciate why “all of a sudden, the whole world is full of Sudan ‘experts’ - who have never been to the country”.

    If the “real” Sudan experts had been quick to speak and resolve the conflict in Darfur, then there wouldn’t be need for discussions as this in the first place. The “Save Sudan” cacaphony would have been irrelevant.

    It will be great to hear from the vast online Sudanese community; it is time to hear from the horses’ mouths I suppose. We would appreciate your assistance in this regard.

14. BRE | Jul 21, 2008 | Reply

    Courts in session over at my place. It took a few days after the ICC read the criminal charges against the accused for me to get my case together.

    You bring up some good points CareTaker about the investment of “blood and treasure” from many nations who have citizens on the ground in an attempt to stem the violence and stop the rapes etc. etc. But I would also like to re-emphasize how privelaged we are to have a distinguished visitor to the debate who hails from Sudan and is a well-known blogger. As I have stated today in my post about the ICC vs. President Al Bashir, this particular online debate at African Loft is both interesting and civil.

    Let us hope that it remains so and that a lasting peace comes to the people of Sudan ASAP. “There will be no peace without justice” are the words of many people who have been driven away from their homes and off their lands in the western Sudan. I believe them and I agree.

15. Tomas | Jul 21, 2008 | Reply

    I remember watching an interview on BBC 6 months ago where the lead prosecuter, an Argentinian, spoke about gathering facts on the ground in Darfur and the difficulties he and his team faced every step of the process from the Sudanese government (no surprise). I applaud him and the UN for this courageous move.

    Let’s be honest: if the lead Prosecuter has the conviction to bring a sitting head of state to justice, even after the uncooperative Sudanese government tried to hide all the facts, block witnesses from testifying; there should be no doubt he is very confident of gaining a conviction. The next few months will be the ultimate test for the ICC and those with a social conscience in the international community, if We back down after a few loud barks from the Sudanese, the Court will be forever undermined. They must stick to their guns here and let the UN Security Council deal with containing Sudanese government’s firey (predictable!) reaction!

    I want to sign off by leaving readers with a short message from the organizers at AVAAZ, an NGO that raises money to heighten international public awareness around key geopolitical issues - purchasing adds in Zimbabwe’s main newspaper, + targeting George Bush in USA Today. They have been very influential, read on and check out their link:

    “Targeting Al Bashir is our best hope to end the terror of Darfur’s rape camps, and take a major step forward for international justice. Many of Sudan’s neighbours are Muslim countries where rape is a scandalous crime – and Al Bashir’s henchmen have killed and raped thousands of Muslim women. To raise awareness of this, Avaaz is launching a large regional ad campaign, urging leaders to help the ICC. Our ads will run in just a few days, and a full page ad in an Egyptian newspaper is just 3000Euros($5000), so we need just 50,000 Euros ($75,000) to get our message across.” Click below to help:

    https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_darfur

    “Many in the international community are concerned that this indictment will undermine attempts to make peace with Al Bashir, and even blame the ICC for threatening peace. Some of those concerns are just a cover for Sudan’s oil and arms dealing partners. Others are more legitimate, but must contend with Darfur’s victims and survivors, who have the most at stake, and are universally supportive of justice. They say they have seen Al Bashir break every agreement he has signed for 20 years, and that no lasting peace can be signed that leaves a genocidaire with the power to commit his crimes again.”

16. Oscar H. Blayton | Jul 21, 2008 | Reply

    Tomas,

    Forgive me if I am not up to date on this point, but I can find no reference to “rape camps” in Darfur by any official investigator or by Moreno-Ocampo. Mr. Moreno-Ocampo’s 10 page Application for the Warrant for Bashir’s arrest has not one mention of “rape camps.”

    I would greatly appreciate someone giving me a cite to such a reference other than unattributable statements by bloggers who do not cite their sources.

    I have found several references to the following passage: “We did not stand up soon enough against the rape camps in Bosnia …” but this was a comparison to the inaction taken in the crisis in Bosnia to urge action in Darfur - not a statement of fact that there are rape camps in Darfur.

    The link to which you direct us is a web site for individuals to send emails to their friends citing the same unsubstantiated claims about rape camps that you have posted here. Rather than sending a letter that someone else has written for you, perhaps it might be better to do your own research and come to your own original conclusions, rather than parroting someone else’s allegations.

    Sensational allegations without reference to sources ill serve the cause of justice. Great crimes have been committed in Darfur, but unsubstantiated allegations will not bring about justice.

    So, again, any credible cite about the existence of rape camps would be greatly appreciated.

17. Oscar H. Blayton | Jul 21, 2008 | Reply

    Mr. Moreno-Ocampo’s 10 page Application for the Warrant for Bashir’s arrest can be read here:

    http://www.icc-cpi.int/library/organs/otp/ICC-OTP-Summary-20081704-ENG.pdf

18. BRE | Jul 22, 2008 | Reply

    Another thing that I would like to better understand and Oscar being an attorney could best answer this question:

    Is the ICC prosector’s application for a warrant of arrest an indictment? If not, could you please explain the difference?

    Looks like Interantional Justice is on a roll this month. The Serbs arrested the longtime fugitive from justice Radovan Karadzic on Friday and are holding him in custody.

    BBC News
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7519039.stm

    Let’s see if Serbia extradites this European war criminal to Den Haag (The Hague) or demand that he be tried in their own national courts. This could have a negative impact on the pending indictment and trial of Omar al-Bashir at the ICC if the Serbs insist on doing the latter.

19. Oscar H. Blayton | Jul 22, 2008 | Reply

    Hello BRE,

    The process is as follows:

    1. The Prosecutor makes an application to the Court [this has been done]

    2. A three-judge panel must now decide whether to approve the warrant or not. [It is anticipated that this decision process should take several months.]

    The I.C.C. does not use the term “indictment” in its procedures and the use of that word by our press is misleading. An indictment is a formal charge. Here we have the Prosecutor applying for a warrant - very much like the American process where a police officer applies to a magistrate [judicial decision maker] for an arrest warrant when that officer believes that a crime has been committed. And very much like the American system, the judicial decision makers must decide whether to issue that arrest warrant or not.

    Below is an exerpt from the I.C.C. web site that will explain it more clearly and in greater detail.

    Cheers.
    ———————–

    http://www.icc-cpi.int/about/ataglance/works.html

    “How the Court Works”
    “States Parties or the United Nations Security Council may refer situations of crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court to the Prosecutor. The Prosecutor evaluates the available information and commences an investigation unless he determines there is no reasonable basis to proceed.

    “The Prosecutor may also begin an investigation on his own initiative. In doing so, he receives and analyzes information submitted by a variety of reliable sources. If the Prosecutor concludes there is a reasonable basis to proceed with an investigation, he asks a Pre-Trial Chamber to authorize an investigation.

    “The Prosecutor’s investigations cover all facts and evidence relevant to an assessment of criminal responsibility. The Prosecutor investigates incriminating and exonerating circumstance equally and fully respects the rights of the accused.

    “During the duration of an investigation, each situation is assigned to a Pre-Trial Chamber. The Pre-Trial Chamber is responsible for the judicial aspects of proceedings. Among its functions, the Pre-Trial Chamber, on the application of the Prosecutor, may issue a warrant of arrest or a summons to appear if there are reasonable grounds to believe a person has committed a crime within the jurisdiction of the Court. Once a wanted person has been surrendered to or voluntarily appears before the Court, the Pre-Trial Chamber holds a hearing to confirm the charges that will be the basis of the trial.

    “Following the confirmation of charges, a case is assigned to a Trial Chamber of three judges. The Trial Chamber is responsible for conducting fair and expeditious proceedings with full respect for the rights of the accused. The accused is presumed innocent until proven guilty by the Prosecutor beyond reasonable doubt. The accused has the right to conduct the defence in person or through counsel of his or her choosing. Victims may also participate in proceedings directly or through their legal representatives.”

20. Drima | Jul 22, 2008 | Reply

    Hi there fellow Africans and thank you for bringing attention to this news. Apologies for joining in a bit late. I was compelled to drop a few words thanks to BRE’s very kind encouragement which I heartily appreciate.

    I’d like to make my point quick and short. The goal is peace and security for Darfur’s people. So, let’s ask ourselves how this latest move contributes towards that goal and in what way.

    Morally speaking, the ICC’s move is admirable, but in terms of political pragmatism, it’s silly and unwise, because all it does is aggravate the situation further. Let’s get real, the UN is pretty much a spineless, paper tiger and the ICC can’t do much on its own.

    Frankly, when I look at the cold hard facts and conduct what I like to call “dispassionate analysis” I don’t see how this contributes to the goal. Already, some humanitarian organizations evacuated themselves. The UN doesn’t follow up in terms of results-oriented action.

    Secondly, the rebels are emboldened by the hollow words of support from influential parties, and these parties too, don’t follow up in terms of results-oriented action.

    Military intervention will solve nothing in the long term. These warring factions have to get back to living in peace side-by-side sooner or later in case you have forgotten.

    Darfur needs a political solution which means applying pressure on both sides to sit their butts down for talks. Now to be clear, I’m not trying to draw a symmetry here between the rebels and the Sudanese government. As far as I’m concerned this is a Bad Vs a LOT worse conflict. Not Good Vs Bad.

    Guys, are you aware of the heavy cooperation taking place between Sudanese intelligence and the CIA? Ever wondered why Bush’s harsh rhetoric against Sudan subsided over the last year?

    Words of support or threats directed towards both sides help with little. The first gives you the illusion that you’ll have back up and makes you more daring, and the second just aggravates you further.

    The ICC’s move lacks political pragmatism.

21. BRE | Jul 23, 2008 | Reply

    Thank you for joining the debate Drima and taking time from your busy schedule in Malaysia. Drima, author of the popular Sudanese Thinker blog laidies and gentlemen.

    Thanks also to Oscar for that explanation re: the application for an arrest warrant vs. the term “indictment” and for the link to the ICC help guide “How the Court Works”.

    Drima, I don’t believe that political expediency and pragmatism will trump justice in the case of the ICC vs. President Omar al-Bashir. The charges are just too damn serious and the suffering is too great. Up to now we have seen a great deal of political cowardice in the face of state-sponsored proxy war and anarchy (the latter ala the rebels) against the people of Darfur and the African peacekeepers and aid workers trying to help and protect them, in exchange for cheap oil and political and business favors in the new economic boomtown of Khartoum.

    The situation in western Sudan is just too damn grave Drima and the defiance and shennanigans of the present regime in Khartoum have been too bold over a too long period of time. Don’t let the “outrage” against the ICC charges from officials in the UN and the AU and Arab League fool you, all three organizations are on a very short leash despite all of the noise. Similar feigned outrage and concerns happened when the UN Special Court for Sierra Leone issued arrest warrants (The Prosecutor vs. Charles Taylor trial). I’m certain there are other examples of international outrage and indignation before a high-profile arrest and trial of a prominent political figure.

    Keep an eye on what happens to Radovan Karadzic in Serbia over the next couple of days. If he can be arrested after 13 years in hiding, extradited to The Hague, and tried for crimes agaisnt humanity and war crimes committed in Bosnia- Herzegovina, why can’t President Omar al-Bashir be arrested and tried for infinately more atrocious crimes in Darfur?

    Because he is a Muslim, a serving head-of-state of an African country he should escape international justice? In the name of peace for Darfur and a negotiated political settlement that will hold up over time? Give me break. Karadzic specialized in the slaughter and mass rape of thousands of Muslims in the heart of Europe, and the sucker is going down I guarantee you.

    The Comprehensive Peace Agreement between the Government of Sudan and the SPLM/A (South Sudan) has to date neither been honored by the Khartoum regime nor properly implemented as agreed. Why should a peace agreement for the Darfur region be any different? You’re looking at a regime change in Khartoum Dude, or at least a change of the head-of-state. My guess is that it will be coming sooner than later, but not soon enough for the 100,000’s of victims who cannot be brought back to life.

22. Drima | Jul 23, 2008 | Reply

    Believe me BRE, I hate the bastard more than you do. I still remember the “lovely” old days in Khartoum and I know well the pain family members had to go through under this regime, but I think you’re being short-sighted.

    I don’t have much faith in the UN or the ICC like you do. Plus, keep in mind that we’ve got beloved Russia and China on the UN Security Council.

    However, let’s say you’re right, and Bashir does indeed go down. Let’s just consider that the UN and the ICC finally get enough balls to actually *do* things and *enact* them. What happens next? Are we even prepared for that? Just look at Darfur’s rebels. They’re so divided, it’s frustrating and sometimes even utterly pathetic that it makes me sad. Look at the tensions within the SPLM. With a power vacuum and people emboldened, you can easily have a very nasty situation.

    I liked how pressure was being applied systematically when the Bush administration’s focus was adequate and Sudan’s hero, John Garang was still alive. There was a clear long term agenda, and more importantly it was getting implemented step by step. It wasn’t the kind of thing that risked chaos.

    “You’re looking at a regime change in Khartoum Dude, or at least a change of the head-of-state.”

    No BRE, I disagree. What we’re seeing now is a clumsy strategy that’s very risky and can cause huge potential chaos. Think Somalia, but on a larger scale. Regime change entails a plan or at least a good idea on how a new entity replaces the old one. Once all these people staunchly backing the ICC tell me of how the replacement is going to happen relatively “smoothly” without a Somalia-like scenario, I might be willing to change my mind. Until then, me not convinced.

23. Oscar H. Blayton | Jul 23, 2008 | Reply

    I believe that Drima is accurate in his assessment. The situation is very volatile. There seems to be little thought given to how peace will be attained and maintained in the various parts of Sudan. This comes from Washington and London (and the other western leaders) not taking the time to consider who the people of Sudan are and what they want.

    Rarely are voices of Sudanese academics and other critical thinkers given the opportunity to be heard. Instead, Fox News and CNN bring in some “self proclaimed expert” from some American or British university or some political wonk from Washington or London to explain to the viewing public who the Sudanese are and what they need.

    There are plenty of capable Sudanese around the world who can educate the rest of us about Sudan and the people of Sudan; but there are those in positions of power in the western world who do want to define the Sudanese [and in fact, all Africans] in a way that justifies the global control of resources by western powers.

    My personal opinion is that current U.S. foreign policy is aimed at “wrecking” Sudan so that proxy armies for the U.S. can go in [followed closely by Exxon/Mobil and BP] and claim the natural resources just as they had intended to do in Iraq.

    The government in Khartoum must take responsibility for what has been happening in Sudan, but we can not ignore the fact that U.S. players and proxies - driven by preceived U.S. interests - have done their part to keep the pot boiling.

    This application for a warrant by the ICC prosecutor is not so much motivated by the desire to help the people of Sudan as it is to bring about regime change in Khartoum.

24. BRE | Jul 24, 2008 | Reply

    Great responses gentlemen (Drima and Oscar) and this is turning out to be a very interesting and civil debate, I really appreciate that.

    I must take a break for a day or two to reflect upon what you are both saying and I want to encourage other African Loft readers who may be following this debate to weigh-in.

    One last thing for my friend Drima:

    I can sympathize with your feelings toward the Bashir regime and the tragic history of conflict and human loss the people of Sudan have suffered for far too many years. But remember, although the ICC charges have raised the stakes within Sudan and the region making an already bad situation even more volatile, Sudan is not Somalia and there is no reason to believe that the situation in your country will spiral downward into the abyss that the Somalis are now experiencing. In addition, the ICC Prosecutor is not finished with requesting warrants for arrest and certain rebel leaders who have carried out attacks against civilians and peacekeepers and aid workers in Darfur may soon be booking a room in The Hague.

    Of course the Sudanese people are in a much better position to know which way this could go than some outsider from the West or the East. I have faith that the people of Sudan both in the north and south will work hard to steer the country away from even more war. You Drima, the Black Kush, and Kizzie are prime examples of what I mean. There are undoubtedly more “Drimas” inside and outside of the Sudan who will be successful in transitioning the country toward a lasting peace. Don’t be afraid, just do it.

    BTW: the Serbian sector of the blogosphere has picked up on this debate over at GVO.

    Serbia: African bloggers’ reactions to Karadzic’s Arrest
    http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/07/23/african-bloggers-reactions-to-karadzic-arrest

25. Kizzie | Jul 24, 2008 | Reply

    Oh this is interesting. A high-profile and well-known Sudanese blogger has joined the debate (Kizzie).

    Re: your statement that Darfur is a matter for the Sudanese people, perhaps you are correct and it is just that. If that is so, I suggest that the people of Sudan who have any influence whatsoever on political matters including the protection and well-being of the country’s citizens get busy because the hammer has dropped and much is at stake that goes far beyond the issue of Darfur.
    ” Many sudanese people ( politicians, intellectuals, professors, doctors and even students) are getting busy. No, we are not sitting down waiting for the west , the UN or the AU to come save us. Darfur reminded us once again that there is a serious governance crises in Sudan. A political resolution is much-needed.

    Bashir doesn’t want to stay in power for long. He was keen of issuing the election rule this year. Many political parties are mobilizing for the 2009 elections. The country is truely at crossroads.

    Actually, Bashir is not the big guy. He simply doesn’t know how to “clean-up” after himself like his the other officials ( seeing that the other criminals actually WENT TO UNIVERSITY and they have a legal background).

    What do you do with the “rebels” who have committed equal henious crimes against innocent civilians?
    ” this is why we don’t want to rebels to rule the country. The founder of the SLA (sudan liberation army) said that he wants to become to president of the Sudan.

    Yes, Darfur should be represented in the national government, but would they chose the rebels to represent them? important question.

    Re. your statement “as much as I would love to see him executed…” I find that very interesting, a young and well-educated Sudanese woman that supports capital punishment. Was that a mere slip of the tongue or do you truly believe that Omar al-Bashir should be put to death for the crimes he has carried out against his own people and the ruination of your country over the past two decades?

    What should we do with Bashir?
    Yes, he should be put to death right away. His death is going to be good for Sudan and the world in general, does this make me seem heartless and ignorant? too bad.

    Caretaker,

    I do appericiate your concern, you should be. However, I don’t enjoy listenting to American college kids who don’t know anything about sudan or darfur advise me on what should be done to “Save Sudan”. I appericiate their concern, but joining a facebook group or donating 1 dollar is not going to save darfur, right?

    Oscar Blayton.
    Because the voices of the Sudanese are always overlooked, we are very skeptical of western activism right now.
    The conflict in Darfur is higly politcized right now.

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