Mugabe the Tyrant Lives on: “Gently Criticized at Open of AU Summit”

19 comment(s)

1. Hubert Taylor | Jun 30, 2008 | Reply

   In my opinion, this is great news from Sharm el Sheikh, Egypt.

   Thank heaven that in Africa, Mr Robert Mugabe and a many Zimbabweans, at least, have the courage to continue to battle against diktats of the ‘West’ and to strive for re-distribution ill-gotten gains taken by force of arms under heinous colonial and apartheid regimes. Particularly laudable that they fight-on, in spite of the inevitable tribal campaign of ‘the West’, to demonise Mr Mugabe at home and abroad, and supplant him with a likely more compliant, Morgan Tsvangirai.

   One wonders whether or how much the local and global standing of ethnic- Africans, has gained from Mr Mandela’s celebrated magnanimity; a magnanimity ‘paid for’ by ethnic-Africans and celebrated by ethnic-Europeans in South Africa. The situation lends a hollow ring to the condemnation of Zimbabwe’s leadership by Mr Mandela. The condemnation is further devalued by being issued while Mr Mandela was being lavishly feted in London in birthday celebrations.

2. Omotaylor | Jun 30, 2008 | Reply

   @Hubert Taylor - so do you now apologise to African Loft for the accusation and namecalling? And do you now agree with me that African Loft has not done anything to be ashamed of and tends to be fair, balanced and amiable? Or am I asking for too much? Peace

3. Rethabile | Jul 1, 2008 | Reply

   For Charity and Francis Matyaka

   Unable to move, she watch them drag him
   from the house into a donga
   and beat him, one goon opening his body
   to pour blood unto the off-colour ditch,
   like wine seeking the whiteness of cloth
   that cover the brains of boys
   and redden their eyes.
   Everyone try not to look
   but go their way into the dim June dusk
   to their families.
   Even God don’t interfere
   when they beat people like this
   with sjambok and machete.
   They killed him, killed him as I watched, she say,
   speaking to no one in particular.
   He wailed, but they kept on beating him quietly.
   The women shake their heads and speak
   in subdued dialect
   of herd boy who find a half-clothed body,
   half-eaten by hyenas. She wail some more,
   as harpooned whale do.
   Her hands hold her head
   like she want to unscrew it
   and give it back to God.
   The women tut-tut and shake their heads
   to see her wail like that.
   Night come, and soon it is
   the lighting of lamps, and everyone shout
   to call daughter or son to table
   for a bit of pap and soup, after
   the ritual of water and soap.

   © Rethabile Masilo
   http://poefrika.blogspot.com/2008/06/for-matyaka.html

4. Hubert Taylor | Jul 1, 2008 | Reply

   Omotaylor, sorry for belated response, I have only just read the question to me in your comment above, where you ask “…so do you now apologise to African Loft for the accusation and namecalling? And do you now agree with me that African Loft has not done anything to be ashamed of and tends to be fair, balanced and amiable? Or am I asking for too much?”.
   The comment you posted was obviously misplaced because my posting above it points no ‘finger’ at Africanloft.
   In any event Omotaylor, I think we have together resolved the issue raise in your comment above. Great to be able have exchanges with you.

   Regards,
   Hubert Taylor

5. omotaylor | Jul 1, 2008 | Reply

   Dear Hubert, the comment to you albeit here is not misplaced for ~African Loft does cover both this piece and the other titled 2Shameless Mugabe” so you know what comment of yours I am refering to. Now go on be magnanimous and apologise for you did say “shame on AfricanLoft”. PEACE

6. Hubert Taylor | Jul 1, 2008 | Reply

   Omotaylor, Where I felt an apology appropriate, I would be have done so especially folowing your concerned prompting.

   Clearly there may be some difference of ‘angle of view’; perhaps you are as concerned about Africanloft specifically, as I am concerned with the quality of the courtesy shown between peoples and about African peoples generally.

   My view is that describing anyone including President Mugabe and President Mbeki, as a “Rabid dog”, or “Gutless” in public headlines on Africanloft, has no place in civil debate and discussions.

   Since you raised the matter of apology publicly, I will say - if the authors and/or Africanloft revise the headlines to meet minimum standards of courtesy, I will be all too pleased to have my obsevation on the matter removed from view.

   If Africanloft sets no standards for courtesy, then my observations stand proven - don’t you think?

   Omotaylor, look at the situation as implied by you: one needs to be careful about reference to Africanloft while no holes are barred when referring to others not present to defend themselves - I am sure (hope) you do not intend such double standards. Do you?

7. CareTaker | Jul 1, 2008 | Reply

   Hubert: I do not really need an apology from you personally, obviously some do.

   We are not journalists - we are ordinary people discussing the motherland and issues of relevance to us. This site is a citizen media platform that is open to anyone with connection or sentiment towards Africa.

   You mentioned the need to have a balanced reporting and this statement:

   “My view is that describing anyone including President Mugabe and President Mbeki, as a “Rabid dog”, or “Gutless” in public headlines on Africanloft, has no place in civil debate and discussions.”

   Here on AfricanLoft, we write as we “see and feel it”. Many of articles are driven by current events, those two you mentioned are exactly what the writers state they are - their track records, which I think you are very much familiar, is enough proof!

   It is not rude, it’s based on facts, and all you need to do is read recent media reports on those men! We just took it a step forward and tagged those men appropriately. And they deserve those tags!

   Imagine, when faced with an open display of tryanny in Zimbabwe, all the AU heads could do was murmur…someone needs to say things as they are!

   You mentioned somewhere that “it took 4 centuries of human ‘abuse’ in the USA before all peoples were permitted to vote regardless of the colour and race”.

   Let me ask, do you expect Africa to go through 4 centuries as USA did?

8. Hubert Taylor | Jul 1, 2008 | Reply

   Caretaker, you ask of me, “..do you expect Africa to go through 4 centuries as USA did”

   You thus invite me to predict the future of politics in Zimbabwe, Caretaker. The short answer is, sadly, I have no such capacity; a longer perhaps more helpful answer follows.

   Since you ask the quest, if you have an answer, please share it with me/us.

   I have give you details for Britain and the USA and perhaps you can look at the developmental spans for other countries.

   I say, Caretaker, life is an ever-changing series states, sometimes imbalance and at times balanced. Neither you nor I can determine life’s time-scales, we can only each take (hopefully considered) sequential steps and then look back upon the collective consequence(s). Who is to say, Caretaker, how low it might take to achieve any particular ideal.

   We can of course, sensibly examine the past for use as a measure of reasonable targets for cumulative endeavour. You will no doubt agree that, as mere mortals, neither you nor I can speak of tomorrow with absolute certainty.

   Finally, on a possible implication in your (perhaps rhetorical) question, I would not demand of Zimbabwe and its Government, more than is reasonable, and if necessary, it is for me to work, and work harder to influence the situation as best I can. Britain and the USA (for example) may well not entertain interference in its internal affairs and there may well be a trace of arrogance in those two belligerent nations to ‘they know best’. Nor should I betray similar traces of arrogance to suggest that I can sort out matters in Zimbabwe better than the people - they must show courage and fortitude in times of difficulty, as every individual human being and nation has to.

   Africa and African (particular in view of their history), should not be overly keen either to too readily ‘beg’ for outside help or give up in the face of adversity. By the same token, it may well have been better for African generally had fought and won or died, rather than submit to external domination. Remember (for example) the courage, determination and fortitude of ethnic-Africans in the cockpit-country of Jamaica and in Saint-Domingue (Haiti).

   Regards
   Hubert Taylor

   ps I note your comment regarding freedom of content on Africanloft

9. CareTaker | Jul 1, 2008 | Reply

   I feel you Hubert.

   The point still remains - regardless of how we want to see the events in Zim - that Mugabe is the principal cause of the crisis in the land.

   Mugabe contested the elections but rather than allow the rule of law and decency to prevail, he chose to usurp power, saying “only God that remove him from power”. The element of finality in this declaration, plus the violence against opposition was want made MDC pull out of the bye-elections. Mugabe ran the election as the only candidate and declared himself president.

   This is what happened. The economic disaster in the land can all be traced to Mugabe…some of the farmers he sent packing have found new homes in Nigeria and are doing well.

   These events are the driving force behind the articles you have read on Zim and Mugabe here on AfricanLoft. This is the reason why Mugabe seen as “rabid” and Mbeki, whose quiet diplomacy has done nothing to reverse the ugly trend in Zimbabwe, has become “spineless”.

   The rhetoric of Mugabe - to which you allude somehow - that the west is behind Zimbabwe woes is hard to prove if not totally baseless. There is nothing the west will gain from a destabilized and broken Zimbabwe, I think.

   In Africa of 21st century, I think words like “external domination” are gradually being replaced by “global cooperation” and “self sustainability”. What Africa struggles with is more of “internal domination” orchestrated by the likes of Mugabe, don’t you think?

10. Hubert Taylor | Jul 2, 2008 | Reply

    Caretaker, you are correct, each of our views stand equally as personal opinions so little point in debating opinions; reasonable debate can best advance on a foundation of facts.

    My assertion Caretaker, is that ‘the West’ (in my opinion, a euphemism for an ethnic-European tribalistic cabal) should treated with circumspection by peoples of other continents.

    When ‘the West’ makes demands and issues diktats on the back of threats of sanctions of one sort or another, such presentations should (in my view) be carefully considered and rejected if arrogantly proffered - as certain countries of Asia have done in the past and as the African Union and SADC are seeking to do now. I urge an insistence upon mutual respect and human honour between nations and ethnic races.

    The Leaders and countries of Africa may do well to reflect on the pride and courage of Muhammed Ali who declined a USA diktat that he should join in wanton destruction in Asia.

    In his hour of need Muhammed Ali had later to travel to Asia and Africa to fight for his living - but he did not yield to US arrogance and brutality.

    It is for Zimbabwe to struggle through its own internal affairs and thereafter stand with pride.
    Caretaker, just for a moment, I will not challenge your personal opinions on the character of President Robert Mugabe. Instead, let us review the character-in-office of other political leaders.

    Just for this exercise, I challenge you to say what you think of President George Bush and the death and destruction cause in Iraq and Afghanistan by US pre-emptive military assault.
    Caretaker, you may better understand my (personal) standpoint, if I note that I am a descendant of West Africa slaves exported to the West Indies, and now a British subject and a citizen and resident of the United Kingdom.

    To assist my understanding, please also tell me/us of your location and ethnic-origin.

    Regards
    Hubert Taylor

11. Omotaylor | Jul 2, 2008 | Reply

    Emperor Bokasa had supporters
    Abacha had his supporters
    Charles Taylor was loved by some
    Idi Amin was not 100% hated.
    George Bush would be defended by some
    Tony Blair hailed by many
    David Kuresh was not hated by all
    Even Sadaam Hussain (in death) was lamented over by some
    Al Quieda has followers
    So why not MUGABE.

    But wait, just like you and I,
    Not all would love us
    And not all would hate us
    But they are welcome to tell us how they feel
    For in doing this we are able to change.
    Or have the assurance that we are doing fine.
    This is not to our shame. PEACE

12. Omotaylor | Jul 2, 2008 | Reply

    And lest I forget to add
    My very personal point of view
    MUGABE if Zimbabwe
    Is indeed a RABID ruler.
    Let’s call the sanitizers in.
    Adieu

13. Rethabile | Jul 2, 2008 | Reply

    Omotaylor,

    WHAT?

14. Hubert Taylor | Jul 2, 2008 | Reply

    Sorry Omotaylor, I (for only one, of course) do not understand the point you seek to make.

    I do hope, however, we are not continuing with the line on the ethnic-European agenda to especially demonise President Mugabe. I urge you not to continue that line else we ought to first deal with those who (in my opinion) have committed greatest crimes.

15. CareTaker | Jul 2, 2008 | Reply

    Hubert:
    Just for this exercise, I challenge you to say what you think of President George Bush and the death and destruction cause in Iraq and Afghanistan by US pre-emptive military assault.
    

    Let me provide some clarification: This topic is outside our ’scope of interest’ on AfricanLoft, at least, here in the Discussion Lounge. We try to keep/discuss topics relevant to Africa. However any topic can be discussed on the
    personal blogs in the Community Lounge.

    This is not to say that we do not discuss foreign policies of the West, we do. The most commented article on site is on AFRICOM – the US African military command.

    But to provide a brief response to your question: I do not support the policy of the US in Iraq. In post 9-11 Afghanistan, absolutely yes. And I’ll leave it at that.

    Hubert, I’m based in the US and 100% Nigerian.

16. Hubert Taylor | Jul 2, 2008 | Reply

    CareTaker, thank you for your kind reply. I had asked you,

    Just for this exercise, I challenge you to say what you think of President George Bush and the death and destruction cause in Iraq and Afghanistan by US pre-emptive military assault.

    You [CareTaker] reply, included,
    This topic is outside our ’scope of interest’ … here in the Discussion Lounge. We try to keep/discuss topics relevant to Africa.

    CareTaker, I now think it inappropriate to draw you (as Caretaker) into open debate, so I withdraw my question.

    — — — —
    However, for clarification I would say, rhetorically, that the point of my question (as was) is pertinent in discussion of a motion which claims that an African president be branded a demon for alleged brutality.

    My contention is that if an African leader is to face a charge of brutality then the conduct of all world leader should be admissible in argument - unless there is one law for the ‘Mugabes’ and African’s of this world and a separate (apartheid) law for the ‘Bushes’ and Europeans.

17. Akin | Jul 2, 2008 | Reply

    Hello,

    I suppose we can all agree that Hubert is just playing Devil’s Advocate and we have risen to the bait, unfortunately.

    Akin

18. CareTaker | Jul 3, 2008 | Reply

    I don’t think Hubert is playing a devil’s advocate; he appears pretty serious and convinced Mugabe and his likes are indeed ‘good guys” that have been able to look the influential ethnic Africans and western super powers in the eye.

    Why anyone could see any good in Mugabe puzzles me. This is a man who has wrecked the economy of one of the most promising nations in Africa.

    Mugabe used to be a superstar among African heads of states and ‘celebrated’ worldwide, including Britain, and seen as the beacon of a greater Africa. Not any more; that was yesterday, and this is what Hubert needs to know.

19. Omotaylor | Jul 3, 2008 | Reply

    Well Hubert Taylor may or may not be playing devil’s advocate (I am of the opinion he is not), but seems very hurt by Western policies, rightly so. Nevertheless Hubert Taylor has not been able to hit the nail on the head about the concrete ills of the West (even in his post “US Terrorist Label on Mandela), hence I still dont fully get him. But one thing is sure, discussing with Hubert Taylor on African Loft even on dissenting views, have been worth it, for everyone have their own minds and we are trying tio understand what this is without necessarily wanting to change other people’s views. This is why I have risen to the occassion. I think I’ve said enough on this topic for I seem to now be going round the same cycle, be it viscious or virtuous. PEACE.

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