Transgender: When Faces and Figures Don’t Matter

14 comment(s)

1. Amy | Sep 29, 2007 | Reply

   Why does it matter who they used to be? If you care about the person, why does it matter who they used to be? If you find her attractive, that’s normal, she is a girl after all. I guess you think of her somehow as a male or something to that effect and that’s what bothers you. Whether or not that should bother you is a separate issue, but why, in your mind, do you think of her as a male? That’s the question you should be asking yourself. Email me at crossthei.thet@gmail.com if you ever want to talk. I’m kind of a goto for questions like this and anything that’s on people’s minds. I’ve helped my friends deal with things as small as why they should or should not wear make-up to things of this magnitude where it’s a question of what you believe and feel. So don’t hesitate to e-mail me if you want. Hope to hear back from you.

2. Amy | Sep 29, 2007 | Reply

   lol, sorry ignore some of that last post, didn’t realize you were a girl. used to hearing the argument that’s it’s weird to be attracted to her from guys, so sorry about the confusion. really, sorry, wow do i feel dumb.

3. Marti Abernathey | Oct 2, 2007 | Reply

   “I was stunned at how natural Oprah’s guests looked. At the end of the show numerous issues bothered me. First, I felt sorry for their families whose lives have been drastically altered by the gender-switch. Secondly, if I saw these people on the street I would never have guessed that they were transgender. Angelika for instance looked really attractive as a female. Lastly and most freaky, as a heterosexual if I want to date someone I would like to know who they are - not who they made themselves into. But how can one tell? Definitely not by looking at faces or figures!”

   First of all, why would it matter to you about someone’s history? Would it make you feel somehow gay?

   Also, typically it’s not the families who suffer, but the transperson involved.I know this first hand. I’ve had my entire family disown me. I want a relationship with them, but it isn’t something you can force. Not really sure how my decision hurts anyone other than me. I’m still the same person, internally. My son understands that he still has a father (albiet an unconvential one). He still feels he’s loved. In the end, that’s what it should be about. I’m glad at least he gets it.

4. Amy | Oct 3, 2007 | Reply

   i agree. as a transwoman, myself, i’d say that the most difficult part of being trans is being trans. I mean, my family is having their time accepting me as me, but i’ve spent my entire life having problems excepting me as me, so they can deal with a short time of it.

   Also, it’s true that people shouldn’t worry about our past or anyone’s past for that matter. i mean the fact that you can’t tell, means that they’ve got past their past and are better for it. And even if you can tell, let people be them. everyone, trans and not, has a rough history in some form or another, the only difference is that we’re able to state our past, because we know that’s not us and are proud of who we are. in fact, i’d go so far as to say, anyone who hides from their past, is merely victim to it. Instead, that person should focus on resolving their own past problems. I’m dealing with my past, because i know i’m better for it. I mean the past happened, but what’s more important is who i am today. i haven’t started transitioning, so my past is still a burden, but i strive to get past and to deal with it, so i can be a better friend, daughter, lover, and overall human being. so if you care about my history, i’d recommend looking at your own history and seeing are you past whatever happened or didn’t happen to you? because, like i said, we all have some history that we need to get past, and once you do, you’re free from it’s grips so even if someone brings it up, it’s not your problem, it’s the problem of the one that brought it up.

5. Okebulan Woman | Feb 20, 2008 | Reply

   I can never for the life of me understand why heterosexuals and non-trans individuals always have to make everything about themselves. They always seem to take it to bed immediately. Never mind that transgender people are often the victims of violent attacks, rape and murder, no straight non-trans people are worried about what trans people do sexually and how it could affect their own selfish lives.

   People associate transgender with lies and deceit. We must be doing it to fool heteros. Like we’re sexual vampires lurking in the dark waiting to catch unsuspecting heterosexuals and make them do our bidding.

6. Misi | Feb 20, 2008 | Reply

   I am sorry if y’all feel offended about this article but the fact still remains that everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is exactly what this is all about. You have a right to think there is nothing wrong with transgender and I have a right to write about it from a non-transgender perspective. Note that my writing about it, does not equate to judging you, because I have absolutely no right to do that but I have a right to express what bothers me in whatever medium I want. Anyway why are you so defensive about being transgender? Ain’t you comfortable with who you are? Flip the table don’t y’all think you are the selfish ones?
   @Okebulan Woman, As for the rape and murder argument —that can happen to anyone whether transgender or not. Anyways how would someone know y’all are transgender when in most cases you look just like the gender you’re trying to portray (one of the points in the article)….thus your argument about being targets for criminal is faulty unless you into something else you are not saying.
   @Marti Abernathey, finally personally I would definitely like to know if the person I want to date is transgender because it matters a great deal to me and am sure to many other non-transgender. And yes I do NOT want to be deceived into being gay by someone who is not upfront with me.
   Back at y’all, how many of your partners have you ever told that you were transgender?

7. Amy | Feb 20, 2008 | Reply

   To be blunt, you’re right I’m selfish, just like every person.

   I want my friends, lovers, family, and even people I don’t know to respect me and who I am. This by no stretch means they have to agree with me or my way, nor does it mean that they have to be quiet about their view. I’m open to people asking questions and trying to understand me, because, in my opinion, is hard to relate to and understand.

   However, I think it is my RIGHT to be who I am without being attacked. There is a big difference between someone asking questions and someone attacking who I am. If you can find someone comfortable with being attacked, I’ll show you the rest of the world that isn’t.

   Let’s say if I was stealth (or planned to be), then the ONLY difference after I told them “I used to be a man” was a thought, a past self. Nothing has changed about who I am today; however, you would imply (by the the fact you want to know so badly) that something did change.

   FYI you’re only gay if you’re dating a women, not someone who used to be a women. Because as you’ve said, you can’t tell the difference. Therefore, you shouldn’t be bothered by who they used to be. Also, gender (i.e. self-identity) should be the characteristic you use to determine “male” and “female”, not sex (i.e. chromosomal). That is unless you have all your partners get a DNA test to “prove they are who they say they are.”

   Also, I think it is important to tell someone you’re with, for if they can’t accept “who you used to be”, they aren’t worth being with. Also, I think not telling them is akin to lying. I mean, it’s one thing to “not to tell something to someone” (e.g. what you did with friends) and it’s another to “purposely not tell them something you did/are” (e.g. being transsexual). The reason why the latter is lying is because you are purposely not telling them something.

   Also, just because someone “looks female” doesn’t mean we’re identical to a “genetic female”. Meaning, until surgeries are done, we still have a penis and an Adam’s apple, both which are “male traits”. Therefore, when involved with someone, they could “find out” and “flip out”.

   From what I hear, most attacks targeting transsexuals are due to someone finding out about your past self (one way or another) and being upset enough to cause harm. Thus, it’s not (for my understanding at least) a “random” attack, but one with intent and purpose. I mean obviously there will be people who are GBLT (gay, bisexual, lesbian, and transgender) who are attacked “randomly”, but there is a higher percentage (or so it seems by what I hear) of people that are GBLT who are attacked BECAUSE they are GBLT. Once again, these attacks are usually done by someone who knows and “doesn’t accept it”.

   My question to you would be: Why does it matter who someone used to be? Would you have a problem after they told you? I mean don’t get me wrong, I don’t hide it because I see nothing wrong; however, society has made us seem like some sort of “predator” and thus it is only human nature to want to “hide it” in order to live our lives.

   Some fear for their life, and you would make it seem that “if you’re not ashame of it, wear it as a badge of honor”. I know I’m exaggerating your point, but we’re not “proud” to be transgender. I have no shame or ill feelings being as such; however, it would be easier if I was born a female or for that matter born a male and was cisgender (i.e. non-transgender). Therefore, it’s not about “accepting” or “not accepting”, it’s about living our lives how we want to. Just like I presume you don’t walk up to people you meet and say, “Hi my name is _, and I’m a heterosexual, cisgender female”. However, you would want us to walk up to people we meet and say, “Hi my name is_ and I’m transsexual”. How is that fair? How is that not a double standard? From this double standard, it would imply you have something wrong with us, not that we have something wrong.

   Also, a small note, I only discuss matters related to myself, not the entire populous (of MTF (male to female), FTM (female to male), and cisgender people (non-transgender)). (in case someone is reading this and yelling at me through their computer screen)

8. diri | Feb 20, 2008 | Reply

   This website is deep!!

9. Kunle | Feb 25, 2008 | Reply

   It’s very difficult for two individuals to agree on a subject involving human sexuality especially if they all approaching the issue from different personal points of view. This is very much like two adherents of different religions trying discuss the issue of salvation of the human soul!

   But to be fair on Misi, I think she has just made her feelings about transsexuality known and I don’t think she’s making any kind of verdict whatsoever. A more gentle response to such views from transsexuals may encourage better dialog on this issue and further more understanding of this peculiar human nature.

   Here is a somewhat dispassionate exploration of the pros and cons of transsexual surgery for anyone that cares.

   http://www.jenellerose.com/htmlpostings/transsexual_surgery_its_pros_and_cons.htm

10. Amy | Feb 25, 2008 | Reply

    Very interesting article, thank you for posting.

11. Misi | Apr 14, 2008 | Reply

    To esp Amy, Marti, Okebulan, Kunle I would love to know your opinions on this article, Please check it out here.

12. Amy | Apr 14, 2008 | Reply

    Just to tell you, the link doesn’t work. I think I have to login to read it. Guess I’ll have to figure that out, but I know the story, and will comment about it as such.

    Truthfully, when I first saw the news (months ago), my immediate instinct was to ignore it. I mean, in practical sense, there’s nothing “amazing” about what’s happening. It is a story of a female having a child. The only difference in this tale is that the “female” identifies as a man. THAT is why there is a story. I mean I’ve never seen the headline, “pregnant woman”, before, because it’s not a story. The reason this is a story is because people say “if you’re a man, be a man; if you’re a woman be a woman.” That’s why its newsworthy.

    For me, at least, I never understood what a “man” or a “woman” was. Even to this day, I can’t identity as a woman. Granted I don’t identity as a man, but I can’t identify as a woman, because I don’t know what one is. I can describe the fact that I imagine myself as a female. I know this because whenever I envision “my happy ever after” with the girl of my dreams, it’s both of us female, not me as a man. This is how I know my identity, because that’s the image in my mind. However, I can’t identify as a woman, because I’m not sure what you mean, nor do I have a definition of what “woman” means.

    My experience with friends would suggest that “woman” includes: wearing make-up, certain types of clothing (e.g. skirts, dresses), getting my ears pierced and wearing earrings, and perhaps most important (to psychologists at least) calling myself a woman. However, I don’t believe I need these qualities to be a female. For me, “female” is an identity, whereas “woman” is a state of being. I am a female, because that’s my identity. However, I can’t call myself a woman, because my understanding of “states of being” is that there are certain qualities it has.

    For example, take an apple (a red one to add some clarity). The apple has certain qualities that makes it an apple (versus some other fruit or something else all together). I mean an apple is an apple, not a rock, for example. I believe that it is the qualities of each that make them different. That is to say, I don’t believe an apple is an apple, because it has an “apple identity”, but because it has some characteristics that makes it an apple.

    If you don’t want to read this next chunk of mass, you’re not missing much. Just going to give a breakdown of my confusion of what “woman” means.

    /*
    Similarly, I think that a woman is a woman because there are some characteristics that separate it from let’s say a man, or for that matter a bear. The problem, for me, is what are those characteristics? Let’s remove the obvious ones. If we are say that I am a woman (as I am now), then we must remove all characterists that are “physically female”, because frankly I don’t have them. Thus, we can’t talk about breasts, voice pitch, vagina, hips, an ass, lack of facial hair (since I have to shave it), and also characteristics such as facial structure. So immediatly, we can say that “woman” isn’t something physical, else I can’t be considered a woman (at least not yet). Now if the definition includes characteristics that I will obtain, then perhaps later I’ll be a woman, but I still don’t know what these characteristics are.

    Moving on, let’s explore the mental aspects. I’m not sure the differences between “male” brains and “female” brains, but I’m a math major, and a computer programmer - which statistically speaking at least, is a “male” proffession. Granted that doesn’t mean woman AREN’T mathematicians (since I have female classmates), but just saying that, in my opinion, it supports the idea of me being a man more than me being a woman.

    Onto “female habbits”. For me, at least, I don’t really get make-up. I mean once in a while to look extra special makes sense, but to wear it constantly, I think, defeats the purpose. I actually prefer women with a “natural” look. Same with clothing, I don’t see many women wearing skirts and dresses all the time. I bring this up, because my past psychologst kept going on about “why don’t you wear female attire”. Well for one, the pants I wear, which I love, are women’s (I couldn’t wears mens even if I wanted to, they don’t have the same colors). However, to him, that doesn’t count. And for most, when they say “female attire”, they mean: purse, skirts, dresses, etc. However, how many female really wear that stuff, and how often? I have many female friends that shock me when I see them wearing a dress, because I only see them in a dress for an event. I hold a similar opinion, I plan to wear a dress (when I have enough confidence in my body) to special events like dances, and one day hopefully my wedding. However, as for everyday wear, I prefer something more casual, and well, confortable. I love the clothes I wear. Well, except the shirts. I’ve been searching for better shirts, but none fit. But that’s neither here nor there.
    */

    The point (finally, right) is that “woman” isn’t such an easy thing to define, and I don’t like using words I don’t know. Thus, I can’t identify as a “woman” because I don’t know what that means. I can easily identity as a “female” because I see that as an identity. However, to describe my state of being as “woman”, I cannot do. Instead, I like being me, what other state of being is better for me, then well, being me?

    I mean even if I identified as a “woman”, what benefit does it serve me? Does it change who I am, does it make me happy, does it some how complete me? For me, it doesn’t. The only reason I would have in identifying as a “woman” is to aid others. Now I’m not going to deny being a woman, if you call me one. I can agree that I could be considered a “woman”; however, I care not to define myself that way. I am me, nothing more, nothing less.

    Now I know my stance is weird - I get that from friends and psychologists alike. However, let me ask this question, how many times (in a day let’s say) do you think about your identity (male if the reader is “male” and female if the reader is “female”)? Now more importantly, would you forget your identity, if you didn’t think about it X number of times? For me, I know who I am. Granted I’m facing depression right now because the mirror and me are having disagreements, but I know me. For this reason, I see no benefit to “proclaiming my womanhood”. I mean, don’t get me wrong, when I feel the urge I do, and when someone challenges my womanhood I start a debate with them about “why do you think you have the right to decide my identity”. However, I don’t think “well, as a woman I should…”. Instead I think, “what do I want to do?”

    I know I went on a tangent, but I wanted to give some background to my understanding of gender. Now I can answer the question.

    Because of my beliefs, I see nothing amazing about this kind of story. Now if we were talking about a genetic male having a child, I’m curious (and sign me up). However, if we’re talking about a genetic female, that’s old news. Just to clarify, I mean no disrespect, I’m just stating the practical side.

    Now, for what actually makes this newsworthy. As I said above, it’s newsworthy because the question comes up: “how can you identify as a man and be pregnant?” I mean that’s about as stupid as a question as “how can I identify as a woman and not cut off my penis?” Now maybe it’s not seen the same, but it is. The argument is that because our identity, we should discard (immediately) “who we used to be”. An FTM should discard any “female parts” including the ability to have children, and thus logically an MTF should immediately discard “her” penis.

    Let me elaborate why I put quotes around “her”. Society sees gender as a binary idea - if you’re not male, your female (and visa-versa). For this reason, when you say “I identify as a man”, immediately others conclude “you can’t be a woman”. I would say this is true, but only to a certain extent. We are all born with the ability to create life - whether sperm for a man or eggs for a female. Also, I believe, we are all born with the desire to create life. Some may not want children, some may not think they are fit to be parents, but I believe that a fair percent of people would like to have a child (but that’s just my opinion). If you deny a transman from getting pregnant, which is being done indirectly by the media onslaught, then you are denying him the ability to create life that he was born with. Granted, that way may be different than one expects from a man; however, I think he has the right to have a child just as much as someone else. I also believe he has the right to have that child without the media going on about it. For there’s nothing “miraculous” occurring. In practical sense, it’s a genetic female getting pregnant. That’s not a scientific discovery. However, it seems to be a social discovery that when a “female” identifies as a man they don’t mean “I’ll throw away my ability to get pregnant” and when a “male” identifies as a woman it doesn’t mean that “I’ll throw away my ability get a woman pregnant”.

    If I can be seen as a woman, even though I have a penis and testicles; I believe that he can be seen as a man, even though he’s pregnant.

13. Kunle | Apr 14, 2008 | Reply

    It is true that this is just another demonstration of the shock-response of the media and the general public to the complete disregard of the generally accepted social gender roles and limits commonly demonstrated by transsexuals. Since this is a case of a genetically female human performing a biologically female role of conception, it can be said that the ensuing global uproar is completely unnecessary.

    However, transexuals should realize that the gender-oriented members of the public will continue to react this way until it becomes clear what the limits are in their (transexuals) endevour to discard society’s goal posts on the field of gender role plays. That is if there are such limits at all.

14. Samantha | May 13, 2008 | Reply

    Hello :)…I just wanted to give my point of view on this subject. I find it kind of funny sometimes that some transgenderd and transsexual individuals want non-transgenderd individuals to understand them and be accepting but yet alot of them are still very defensive about themselves. I myself am a 28 yr old pre-op (meaning I haven’t had genital surgery) transsexual female, And I am very truthfull about who and what I am about. However i don’t feel the need or necessity to advertise it to total strangers either.
    But to those that interact with me and are close to me I let them know.
    First of all I view my transsexuality as not a defining part of me but a important part the same. I am first a artist,web designer,compassionant,sincere woman WHO happens to be transsexual.

    There is no decieving (not on my end) I am who I am on the outside as well as on the inside.
    I hope I didnt skew the topic up to much lol..I tend to do that :). but @misi you should totaly research..if you so wish the subject of transsexuality and transgenderism.

    thanx everyone

    Sammy

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